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Alorica Executive Interview

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Mike Clifton and Max Schwendner serve as co-CEOs of Alorica, leading one of the world’s largest customer experience organizations through a period of rapid transformation. Together, they have built a uniquely collaborative leadership model with two minds operating as one CEO while steering the company toward a future defined by advanced technology, AI native operations, and deeper strategic partnerships with clients. Their combined backgrounds, complementary strengths, and shared vision have reshaped Alorica’s trajectory and positioned the company at the forefront of the evolving CX industry.

Sheri Greenhaus: You’re co-CEOs and you’re together a lot, especially when you travel. Do you ever find yourselves needing a little space, or does it still work smoothly?

Mike Clifton: About 90% of the time, we’re together. Occasionally we split up because there’s too much happening at once and we need to cover more ground.

Max Schwendner: We’re pretty comical guys — we haven’t gotten sick of each other yet. The running joke is that we probably spend more time together than with our spouses, so we have to get along. Hopefully that never changes.

Sheri Greenhaus: So if you’re co‑CEOs, what happens when you don’t agree?

Mike Clifton: We get this question a lot.

Max Schwendner: We hardly ever disagree. In the two and a half, almost three years we’ve been doing this together, we’ve disagreed about one thing. When we implemented the co‑CEO model, we told the team: There is one CEO role — there are just two people in that box.

We usually know how the other person will think or decide. We debate behind the scenes, but actual disagreements are rare. And we made it clear to the team: if you get a decision from one of us, you’ve gotten it from both of us. That clarity has been a huge advantage.

Mike Clifton: On company strategy, financial direction, market approach, we’re in lockstep. Where we debate more is talent. Max and I look at people differently, and that’s healthy. We see different traits in different meetings, and those debates help us make better decisions. We push that mindset down into our operating committee.

Sheri Greenhaus: You come from very different backgrounds. Does that help, especially when evaluating people or making decisions?

Max Schwendner: Absolutely. People often ask, “Why two CEOs instead of one?” There’s no single person who would have the combined background Mike and I bring. Our different experiences accelerate decision‑making because we can look at an issue from six angles instead of one.

Across personnel, operations, financials, technology, investment — we can lean on each other’s strengths and make smarter decisions faster. I know I couldn’t move as quickly without Mike. Maybe he’d be faster without me, but I doubt it.

Mike Clifton: Different backgrounds, different skills, different viewpoints, but one CEO. If you’re in a meeting and you get a decision from one of us, it’s from both of us. That drives effectiveness. It’s our job to stay in sync.

Sheri Greenhaus: It reminds me of kids.  If they don’t like what Mom says, they go to Dad. But with you two, that’s not possible.

Max Schwendner: Exactly. One of the first things we tell the team is: There is no Mom and Dad. There is one parent. And if someone tries to go to one after going to the other, they won’t do it twice.

Sheri Greenhaus: I kept seeing online that you’re the number‑one performing CX partner for your clients. That means your clients really like you. What do you attribute that to?

Max Schwendner: It’s more than clients liking us. When clients measure us against their internal centers or other competitors, we routinely outperform. In about 90% of accounts, we’re ranked first or second.

I’d attribute that to two things:

1. A holistic embrace of technology — tools that make our agents more proficient and able to hit not just basic KPIs but stretch KPIs.
2. A maniacal focus on performance excellence — doing the day‑to‑day things right, consistently, in a repeatable and trainable way.

We’ve built compensation, operational, and management plans around achieving client objectives sustainably. As a result, we’ve become a target because of how well we perform.

Mike Clifton: Another differentiator: when Max and I took over, we created verticalization and specialties. We built a client‑partner model where those leaders act consultatively.  They sit at the table with the client, understand their strategy and challenges, and translate that into fast operational impact.

Each account has two leaders: operations and client partner. They own the account: clear accountability, aligned incentives, and a consultative relationship. That’s why clients like us. And if you’re not that partner at the table, you won’t be part of the future of this industry.

Sheri Greenhaus: It sounds like your clients treat you as part of their team, not just a vendor competing on price.

Mike Clifton: That’s the goal. If you’re just an economic outsourcing provider, you’re a commodity and commodities don’t survive the future of this industry. But if you’re a partner helping with data, middle office, back office, and multi‑geo strategy, you become an extension of the client. We’re seeing more clients sole‑source with us than ever before.

Sheri Greenhaus: Thinking about your clients and the future of the agent and AI, how is that coming together?

Max Schwendner: Unevenly. People are trying a lot of things: small pilots, big initiatives, and everything in between. What Alorica is great at is being the human in the loop, not a commodity, but the hub.

Some clients initially over‑extend what AI can do, then retrench and add more human support as the AI improves. The most successful implementations are the ones where clients trust us to be part of the journey — constant training, reinforcement, and evolution.

Clients count on us to deliver outcomes. Today that’s more human‑based; tomorrow it’ll be more technology‑based. But it will always be a blend.

Sheri Greenhaus: Do clients ever bring you fully automated ideas and you have to tell them, “That’s not going to work”?

Mike Clifton: More often, they ask us to run pilots with them. We rarely see clients implement something without involving us. We help define success criteria in terms of metrics, volumes, handling times. And we have dedicated centers for pilots so they don’t disrupt large‑scale operations.

Sometimes AI deflects volume unexpectedly, and our client partners quickly identify what’s happening. But overall, it’s collaborative, not something done to us.

Sheri Greenhaus: As a consumer, I see terrible chat experiences. Do you monitor that for clients and say, “This isn’t working, let us help”?

Mike Clifton: Yes, through shadow shopping. Clients ask us to act like customers and report what we see.

Max Schwendner: Exactly. We look for opportunities to improve their CX. Sometimes that means recommending technology or changes that actually reduce the work coming to us. It strengthens the partnership. We proactively bring ideas, whether it’s self‑containment, new tools, or process changes. Clients want different things from their CX, and our job is to help them achieve those outcomes.

Sheri Greenhaus: If a company is issuing an RFP, will they bring you in to help evaluate it?

Mike Clifton: Often procurement asks, “What should we be asking for?” We help shape the narrative and define requirements, especially around how to measure effectiveness and outcomes. We don’t want to write it and then respond to it, but we do help ensure its complete and aligned with what they’re trying to achieve.

Sheri Greenhaus: You must see a lot of technology across your client base. What are some of your favorites?

Mike Clifton: We’re as much venture guys as CEOs, so we have biases. But favorites depend on the problem being solved. Claude is maturing fast. Microsoft is pushing hard at the desktop level with Copilot. But the real question is: What does a fully AI‑native CX model look like? No one has nailed down that answer yet. That’s where we’re spending time, thinking from the bottom up.

Max Schwendner: Our favorites are the technologies that actually deliver the promised outcome. Not tech for tech’s sake. As the hype cycle matures, people will look for real solutions. We invest where technology drives better outcomes — higher CSAT, converting complaints to sales, true AI‑native platforms, multimodal integration, seamless cross‑channel experiences. That’s where the future of this industry is heading.

Sheri Greenhaus: You mentioned venture. Is that a division within Alorica, or is it something separate you’re doing?

Mike Clifton: When we look at implementing technology across the business…

Max Schwendner: We’ve built an operating model and technology architecture that’s very plug‑and‑play. So when we evaluate new technologies, whether to bring them in or phase them out, we’re also looking at investment opportunities for our equity and debt investors.

Often we find young technologies with real potential. We help them prove out their solutions, sometimes becoming their first customer. In return, we may receive an interest in the company. It’s not a separate entity.  It lets us bring cutting‑edge technology to clients that they wouldn’t otherwise have access to because it’s so early in development.

Not every investment works, of course. Some don’t pan out and we move on. But the flexibility of our architecture makes experimentation possible. Our core business is serving clients, and this venture approach helps us do that better.

Sheri Greenhaus: Did you walk the exhibit hall at CCW?

Mike Clifton: Yes, and there were really two parts to it. Max and I have personal relationships with VCs, and the value we offer them is our deep understanding of the CX business. That gives us early visibility into new portfolio companies and ideas coming into the market.

Walking the exhibit hall is partly meeting in person the founders we’ve been talking to for months. We also hosted an event where the companies we’ve invested in or partnered with met our clients.

Our client partners need to see what’s emerging in the market and we bring those ideas to them. If they don’t have access to the insights we get from VCs, they become just day‑to‑day operators. So we’ve built an innovation engine into the client‑partner model. It’s working well. As Max likes to say, we’re probably 51/49 in favor of good decisions.

Sheri Greenhaus: There was an interesting company that could detect whether a voice was fake or fraud.

Mike Clifton: We’ve invested in a company doing exactly that. For us, identifying whether a call is a bot, a fraudster, or a real customer is extremely valuable, especially in banking and retail. We’ve been piloting that for six to eight months.

But you have to be careful. Tools like Claude are becoming people’s bots for legitimate tasks. So sometimes a “virtual” caller is actually a real customer using an AI assistant. It’s a fascinating shift.

Sheri Greenhaus: I read about CX2GO, which you launched last year. Is it designed for newer or younger organizations that need to get up and running quickly?

Mike Clifton: It serves two audiences.

First, venture‑backed companies that need a CX capability fast. They’re new, they’re getting flooded with customer inquiries, and they don’t know how to stand up CX. CX2GO lets them launch in about two weeks on any channel, outcome‑based, fully supported.

Second, mid‑market or small U.S. companies that have never outsourced before. They don’t know what to do or how to start. CX2GO is the perfect starter package. They get a dedicated partner who walks them through measurements, processes, and operations. It begins small with a few seats, a few advisors and scales as volume grows.

It’s been very successful. We’re around our 15th–20th small company and 30th–40th mid‑market company.

Sheri Greenhaus: Is CX2GO sold by a separate team, or is it the same group?

Mike Clifton: Everyone is trained to sell it, but we’ve seen natural segmentation. Some people are great with venture startups and first‑time outsourcers. Others prefer going after the whales. So we’ve aligned teams based on strengths. But in theory, anyone on our team can sell CX2GO.

Sheri Greenhaus: Just a couple more questions. Since you’ve both joined Alorica, what’s the biggest difference in the company? And where do you see the industry going in the next few years?

Max Schwendner: The biggest change has been the expectations around our ability to inject technology and act as a technology partner, not just a human‑based volume provider. Every year, the complexity of the work we handle increases. The simple transactions of 3, 5, 10 years ago are gone.

Our board often asks: What has AI done to volumes? Counterintuitively, volumes and AHT have gone up. Partners like Alorica, who embrace technology, are being rewarded with more complex work.

More than 20% of our revenue today is direct AI servicing or training. The core of CX is solving problems for customers. Tomorrow, that won’t change, but the blend will. We’ll solve problems through call‑flow changes, decision‑tree optimization, AI tuning, and human‑in‑the‑loop collaboration.

We’re excited about a future where AI touches every part of the business: recruiting, onboarding, training, workforce, operations, both human and tech, all seamlessly integrated.

Imagine a world where you can’t tell whether you’re talking to a bot or a human. A bot named Max answers your question, then seamlessly hands you to Mike, who’s human. That’s the future and not everyone will get there.

Low‑cost labor is becoming commoditized. The winners will be the trusted, technology‑driven partners. That’s where Alorica is heading.

Sheri Greenhaus: If the bot and human handoff become seamless, doesn’t that mean you’ll need a different level of employee? That’s a whole new type of training.

Max Schwendner: We’re already seeing that. AI hasn’t automated call‑center jobs the way people predicted — because call‑center labor is already the lowest‑cost part of the supply chain. You don’t save much by removing it.

Instead, AI companies moved downstream into the middle office, where transactions are more complex. Those complex transactions are now moving into our world. Our people are becoming more skilled — handling full sales cycles, back‑office claims, and more.

Training programs that used to be a week can now be twelve weeks. And we’re hiring different types of people as doctors, nurses, lawyers, roles we wouldn’t have hired before.

Mike Clifton: To build on that: bolting AI onto legacy CX platforms gives clients what they’re asking for, but the architecture is flawed. The database behind the transactions wasn’t built for AI. You end up with a non‑native model.

We believe the future is a fully AI‑native architecture, where every transaction is captured, orchestrated, and learned from. The AI doesn’t need to fully contain the journey; it needs to consume the data and improve the journey over time.

Containment rates and resolution rates have been the industry’s obsession, but that’s because the architecture was wrong. If you architect it correctly, the AI can learn continuously while humans handle the highest‑value parts of the journey.

That’s the game. And that’s where we’re spending our time.

Max Schwendner: To add one more point.  Replacing humans with bots just to save money is the tail wagging the dog. The cost of acquiring a customer is far higher than the cost of CX.

If we get this right — imagine calling United, American, Marriott, anyone — and immediately getting someone (bot or human) who knows your preferences, anticipates your needs, and makes you feel valued. At scale, that transforms loyalty.

In some of our biggest accounts, we’re already the largest sales channel. CX becomes a revenue engine, not a cost center. That’s the best case, and we believe it’s achievable.

In the end, Mike and Max’s vision makes one thing clear: the next era of customer experience will belong to companies that blend human insight with AI intelligence, and Alorica intends to lead that transformation.